PCC Nick Alston answers police officer concerns

HOW has the police and crime commissioner helped reduce crime in Essex? Will he support officers acting as ambulances? What will he do to improve police officer morale?

To mark the end of 2013, EssexFedFocus quizzed PCC Nick Alston (pictured) about these issues and more in a wide ranging interview, a little more than 12 months on from taking on the role.

Read part 1 of our exclusive question and answer session here.

You are just over a year into the role. How have you have helped to reduce crime in Essex?

That must be our overall ambition – I have made that clear publicly and privately to the chief. My role is kind of two fold. Firstly it is to really make sure that the Chief Constable [Steve Kavanagh] and force as a whole is challenged and supported to be as good as it can be and then secondly it’s about getting the partnership working, ensuring that all of the agencies are engaged in that crime prevention agenda. The twist to it – and why I think PCCs are different to police authorities – is it’s about personal leadership, it’s about the ability to get out there and say “I care, I’m prepared to try and make the difference, I’m prepared to be held publically accountable for this.” And to get out and then draw everybody together when you need to, to solve the problem. It is about localism. That is what police and crime commissioners are about.

So how much control and influence do you have on the force would you say?

I do have significant influence, I don’t have control, I shouldn’t have control.  The Chief Constable must unambiguously be in operational control of the force and if we cross that line I think we are in trouble, I think both Steve Kavanagh and I know kind of intuitively and instinctively where [the line] is. We’ve never got to as point which we say “Oh, not sure about this.”

Talk to us more about the influence then.

The influence is about… it happens on a planning basis, so the police in crime plan… I think I could evidence now how the police have responded to that.  Embracing the local piece, them embracing the crime prevention piece, them being very committed to the domestic abuse piece, them responding through the way they present their performance data in the areas of focus, youth offending, alcohol and drugs, being very responsive. So that influences at the planning level, then I think there are two other examples I would sight. Probably the first would be, actually the local meetings, because I have these meetings, we go up to every district and get the local district commanders on their feet in front of their public, talk and have a real debate, I kind of chair it, that dialogue between the police and the public they serve and I think that really has influenced the district commanders to think about their local communities in a slightly different way. So that’s an influence on an every other week basis and then week by week sitting with the chief and his senior team as we do on a Thursday morning. I think those meetings are just a continual check, he’s got his hands on the tiller, but all the time we’re talking about what we’re doing and his operational command of the force, particularly in his change agenda, because he’s come in with a very strong change agenda.  Week by week we talk about that and I think I see him responding to that.  And it happens when I am out and about engaging with his officers.

Officers continue to mention having to pick up the work of the ambulance service and taking people to hospital. You mentioned at the Federation Open Meeting in May that you would try to address this. Officers say nothing has changed…

It’s got worse actually…

Why has it got worse and what are you doing to try and fix the problem?

The problem isn’t for us to fix. That’s the trouble. The Chief wrote to the Chief Executive of the Ambulance Trust. The East of England Ambulance Trust is in serious difficultly.  So we’ve got a failing Trust and we are having to work around the edges. When this first came up way ago, I had a quite a tricky exchange with the IPCC, who said to me it’s completely unacceptable that we’re letting police officers do this and I reacted quite badly to that letter. I said “Hang on, Essex Police know what they are here for, they are here to look after people, to serve people, they’re here to keep people safe. And if in the judgement of experienced police officers, the thing that they need to do is take someone to hospital if they come across someone who is ill or injured and it’s clear that an ambulance for whatever reason can’t get to them, I am going to back them if they use their judgment to do that. So we can’t solve the problems, but the Chief Constable and I both said to the IPCC very firmly that “Ok, of course it’s undesirable, of course we don’t want our police officers taking people to hospital, it should be paramedics and ambulances doing it, because they don’t have the skills to do it.” On the other hand are we going to back a police officer who uses his judgement who tries to do the best for somebody… if the worst case be that somebody dies in the back of a police car, it’s a tragedy. If that happens because a police officer is doing his very best to save someone, then the Chief Constable and I would back them. One hundred per cent.

But what officers will ask is what are you and the chief constable doing at your level to try and stop them doing that, because they don’t want to be doing that, they want to be doing what is their core job.

Of course it is, so what can we do?  We can firstly put the pressure on the Ambulance Trust to recognise the problem, which we’ve done, and we can make sure that others like the IPCC are fully aware that we are aware of the problem, we can encourage those that have responsibility for the problem to deal with it and that we’re going to back our officers. In a way it is piling up the insurance if you like against if something does happen. I am not sure what else we can do.

Are you able to have conversations with MPs?

Oh yes absolutely and I’ve done that sort of thing and we see the MPs quite regularly. I’ve certainly raised it with MP’s – not all of them, but again they can only do so much. The Ambulance Trust has to sort its problems out.

But categorically you’ll back officers?

If the officer uses their discretion and in their judgment having done all the sensible things and checked on ambulance times and all the rest of it.  If in their judgment the best thing they can do is try and rush somebody to hospital and the worst happens, then we’re going to back them and we’ve said that to the IPCC and the Chief has said that to the Federation.

Police morale is not at a fantastic level as we speak. What are you doing to improve it from your office?

I don’t know whether you are right to say it is not as you would want it…

Well that’s what officers are saying. You can’t escape from the fact that their pay and conditions have been greatly changed…

It’s been tough, on the other hand you know we are still attracting really good people, people want to join the police, we’re not losing many early. There’s a lot going as they get to their 30 years service but why shouldn’t they? We’ve got a great age spread of officers in Essex. One or two have a go at me when I meet them, but on the whole I find really well motivated people who enjoy their job. But I do understand, it’s been a tough period, but their jobs are still relatively secure, we haven’t lost officers and touch wood I hope we don’t have to lose officers.

Should compulsory severance be signed off and agreed by the Police Arbitration Tribunal and then the Home Secretary, will it be something that you would want or to see being introduced to Essex Police?

I certainly wouldn’t want it to be introduced. I can understand why having it as a power for the Chief Officers, who have got the ability to operate it, if they need to, makes sense.  I would hope that we don’t find ourselves in that position. I would be surprised if we did.

We will move on to officer numbers. How many is a good figure in Essex?  Do you think you can go any lower?

It has been a lot lower in the past so it’s come from a lower number. Crimes coming down, numbers will come down. I don’t know… I will talk with the chief, does he think they will go below 3,000? Some people are talking about 2,800. If you take the worst case, and all the savings had to come out of police officers, you’re going to be down to around 2,800.  I think it will finish up somewhere around 3,000, but the important thing is that we have got the right balance of police officers, staff, PCSO’s – we need all three, they’ve got to be just as good as they can be and they need to be managed and organised in the right way to deliver really good policing.

What’s your relationship like with Essex Police Federation? Do you meet up with them on a regular basis?

I haven’t met up with them on a regular basis, it was my intention to do so…

Why haven’t you?

I think the honest answer is… I like them all, I’d be very happy to meet them. I think the reality is, I would be happy to meet with them, I haven’t refused to see them as it were. I think it’s because they are there representing police officers and they are very firmly the employees of the Chief Constable, they are very firmly his people. I think it’s about the natural responsibilities. They’re there to represent their members. He is their operational manager, he’s their boss, he is the right point of contact.

Do you not think you would benefit from speaking to them on a regular basis?

I don’t know… I would enjoy it. I’d find it of interest. Do I feel it a crucial gap?  I’m not sure that I do feel it’s a real gap, probably because I do feel well connected with lots of officers, you know I’m speaking to certainly inspectors every day.  I’m speaking to sergeants, PC’s, every week I’m meeting a good cross section of them. I think that as I talk about it, I rather regret there wasn’t any more regular sessions with them.

As we approach Christmas and the New Year, what would be your message to front line officers?

A really big thank you for what they do. I do see how difficult it can be, I do understand the complexity of things I knew nothing about a year and a bit ago. How difficult it is dealing with domestic abuse cases, about missing persons, about the mental health challenges and how distressing it is dealing with child abuse and how difficult some of the modern investigations are, so I am coming to learn that and understand. I think they overwhelmingly do a great job. I think the public know it too.

In part 2: Essex ethics, professional standards and integrity, sickness levels and are the public currently getting the service they deserve from Essex Police?